I had a good discussion with Spencer today about his book, A Heretic’s Guide to Eternity. I’ve felt it’s too centered on the “where you go when you die” issue pertaining to salvation. I’ve said, and continue to say, that following Jesus now, accepting his invitation into the Kingdom of God in the here and now, is salvation. Spence pretty much agreed, but it’s always hard to hammer out such a difficult issue and be sure two people are understanding each other. Communication is creating shared meaning, and that’s something we human beings all too often fail at… miserably.
It was interesting to try to delve into what Spencer thinks about salvation. I think he’s closer to a lot of emerging church persons then they currently think, but there are probably still significant points of disagreement. Scot McKnight’s been pretty in-depth on the book, so I’m not really going to review or discuss the issues directly here.
I get asked about Spencer from time to time, since I’m the Gen. Editor of TheOoze. When I disagree with Spencer, it’s always an uneasy question for me. I don’t want to slam Spence, but I have my own thoughts on just about every subject.
So, in case you all are wondering, I too have issues with Spencer’s book. But, I feel like it should be read, because the issues it deals with are central to Christianity in this century. Universalism is a question which must be addressed. Spencer calls himself a “Universalist who believes in Hell.”
Spencer said something today that made me think about his book. He said it wasn’t really written for Christians, so he feels a lot of the criticism right now is coming from people trying to force terms or ideas where they don’t belong. He seems to think if people knew what he really believed, he’d be a lot closer to a lot of those who are criticizing right now. I’m not sure, but I’m going to reread the book (I don’t think I’ve actually read the final published draft all the way through) and see if I can grasp better what Spence is trying to say. I know the questions around this topic are on my mind a lot, so whether I end up agreeing with my friend or not, I’m going to have good subject matter to delve into…
So…when Spencer says he’s a universalist that believes in hell, I take that to mean he’s a Christian Universalist.
The Universalist position is deeply misunderstood and overshadowed by the Unitarian view of it.
I wish more people would read the Evangelical Universalist by Gregory McDonald (pseudonym). It is a great layout of arguing for a Christan universalism grounded in the texts of the Christian faith. The author admits that universalism is a minority report in the history of Christian theology, but he makes a great case that Universalism in itself cannot be dismissed as necessarily non-Christian.
It might be good to encourage people to read it.
Best,
Nathan
Nathan
October 5th, 2006
Alan,
It’s amazing how w alle have different perspectives on things. I was given Spencer’s book and thought it was about universalism. While I thought it was a good book, that was not the subject that I thought was most prominent in the book. I would have liked to see more about universalism in the book.
I’d like to know where you have questions/disagreements with Spencer. I do find one of your comments very interesting. You say you’ve felt the book is too centered on where you go when you die. For someone like me, raised to believe in a place of eternal torment in a weird mix of Calvinism and Arminianism and never SURE of whether I’d be consigned to this place or not, you really can’t spend too much time talking about the universal love of God. Since Christianity has spent so much time and energy focused on this very subject (where you go when you die), I think it’s important that people who don’t believe that God will either let the vast majority of people slip into Eternal Torment or has predestined the vast majority of people to Eternal Torment make that position known. For the most part, modern (or postmodern, if you will), non-Christians find either of those positions absurd.
Peace,
Brian
Brian
October 6th, 2006
hey alan — do you know how long spiritual-formation.com has been hacked by anti-semitic hackers? i cant get to the site anymore…
suzanne
October 8th, 2006
Thanks for pointing that out to me. I’ve temporarily restored the site, but if participation does not happen on the site soon, I will take it down.
Content Management Systems often require security updates, and with as many modifications as I made to that site, it’s time consuming. If others start using the site more, I’ll make the updates. If not, I can’t use all that time for a site that barely gets used…
Alan
October 8th, 2006